Three Different Regiments?

[Del 80]

Hello, I have just discovered that my other half's grandfather was in three different branches of the armed forces, namely The Royal Irish Rifles, The Royal Navy, and The Royal Scots Fusiliers, all in the early 1900s.Was this normal for those times? His name was Hugh Joseph Clarke, born 1900 in Ardrossan to Irish parents. When he was discharged from the RIR, he would only have been 15 years of age, can anyone throw any light on this please. Regards Del.

[Richard]

Hi Del:
First of all, Yes, It was very common for soldiers enlisting in a World War to be passed from one unit to another.
For Instance; a boy might enlist with one unit only to be posted to another before being transferred to another
one that, maybe, had to make-up It's numbers quickly before going on operation or to a unit that was newly
formed,(for similar reasons). But that was usually from Infantry to Infantry,(within the Army).
I have never heard of this happening between branches,ie: Army to Navy or vice-versa etc ?
Secondly, how much more do you know about your relative ? If you need any further help on his military career,
give me a shout and I will see If I can help you get his Military Attestation Papers or whatever other help I can
give.
Thirdly, 15 years old seems very young to be "Discharged" from any unit, even back then.
There is a possibility that your relative joined up and was found to be lieing about his age, as thousands of
young boys tried to do and he was found out OR maybe he was 'carded' for an "undisclosed history" ?
Just a couple of suggestions for you to consider.
Let me know If you need any further help.
Richard.

[Del 80]

Hello Richard, Thanks for your reply, I have the service record of Hugh Joseph, the ships he sailed on etc. what I don't have is the record for his brother, Samuel Allan Clarke, when he married in 1916 at Ardrossan, he was given as being in The Royal Scots Fusiliers, but I can find no record for him, any help on this would be appreciated, Regards Del.

[Guest]

DEL:
I have come up with almost 7000 military records for the names Clarke/Clark.
A fair few of them are either S.Clarke, Samuel Clarke, Allan Clark or various mixtures with other names
and/or initials. I've even got one for an S.A.Clarke, in WW2. Several Samuel Clarke' from Shankhill, Antrim,
Londonderry, Newtownards and other parts of Ireland.
If I am to try and narrow the search and identify your relative, IF i come across him, I will need more
information from you that will help me to do that. Information that would help me to do that would include;
when/where born, family members(ma,da,bro,sis). You said he married 1916,Ardrossan...was that before
or after he enlisted, if before then wife's name might help for elimination purposes. Any & every bit of info
could possibly help. Did he survive the war. Anything you can think of, might help?
Middle names can become a serious distraction if you focus on them when searching for documentation and
they can throw you way off course,ie: one of my relatives ALWAYS used his middle name on EVERY bit of
documentation until I noticed a piece of the jigsaw was missing,(a travel document). Some weeks later I
found it when doing a search without his middle name and the only way I could guarantee 100% that it was
him was checking his next of kin on the document,(his father at Torwood, Sorbie Road, Saltcoats).
I have also experienced the extreme opposite to that and discovered a relative WITH two middle names he
never had when he enlisted, well not as far as any family knew, including his brother, my maternal
grandfather. Mind you, this relative also lied about his age when he enlisted, in his eagerness to go and
fight. The family were also always in the belief that he was on & went down with 'The Hood' but my
research found that he was on & went down with HMS Bullen, just off Cape Wrath, NW Scotland.
So, as you can see Del, It pays to have as much info as possible. If only for elimination purposes. It all helps.
You say that his marriage documentation states that he was in the Royal Scots Fusiliers ?
If he enlisted long before marriage it is possible that he enlisted into something else and was recently
transferred, was he getting married quickly before being shipped off to war ? These are all examples of
how it's handy to have as much info as possible. If you've got anything else & your comfortable with
passing it on then I will see what I can dig-up for you by checking those records. Might take me a while
but if he is there I will find him. The more info I have the better chance I'll have.
Richard.

[Richard]

DEL:
That previous post was from me.
Forgot to Log-in before writing it.
Also, when I hit "submit", what I had written just disappeared.
So I hit the back button then submit.
That's why It has come up as a "Guest" posting.
Richard.

[Del 80]

Richard, Here's what I know about Samuel Allan Clarke, He was born in 1897, in Ireland, most likely Co. Down, his parents were Samuel Clarke, a general labourer, and Susanna McDowell,they married at Kilmegan, Co. Down, in 1896. By 1901 he is in Ardrossan Scotland, with his grandmother, Ann McDowell, uncle, Joseph McDowell,mother Susanna, and younger brother Hugh Joseph, they are at 9 Harbour Lane. In 1916 he married Jessie Boyce, at Ardrossan, here he is given as a goods checker, and then what looks like the word "private"--Royal Scots Fusiliers. And that's all I have on him until his death in 1978, at Saltcoats. One more thing, on the ASH site there is a Samuel Clarke who is given as wounded, date 6.8. 1915, he was of Herald St. Ardrossan, but not sure if it is him or not. Regards Del.

[Richard]

OK DEL.
Thank's for that. Should be enough to help identify him , IF i come across him ?
Might take me a while, weeks rather than days, but keep checking back daily or every other day and if I've
found anything I will leave you a message on the board & I'll send a PM.
Not promising anything so don't hold your breath. See what I can find ?
Richard.

PS: Just a wee thought; that title of "Goods Checker" sounds like some sort of job in the docks/harbour area
and maybe that word says; "previous" or something similar. Meaning, he was in the army but got wounded
then out. I would try & find out more about that; "Goods Checker", if I were you. Especially given that
address. Try asking, on these Forums, if any of the older, more knowledgeable members can put you right ?
Failing that, there is another brilliant site called shipsnostalgia, deal with ALL topics maritime, you could
join and see what help you can get there?

[little plum]

Just a wee thought; that title of "Goods Checker" sounds like some sort of job in the docks/harbour area

There also could be a connection to the railway, as a lad there was a constant stream of what we called " Goods Trains" passing through Stevenston, the only likely destination would be Ardrossan.

[Richard]

DEL:
That's also a good tip from LP. Makes sense.
Do you know when in 1916 Samuel got married because I have found a Samuel Clarke who deserted his
regiment In February 1916 and then returned to enlist with the Royal Engineers near the end of March 1916
without declaring his previous military history. I don't think this is your relative because his previous
regiment was the Royal Irish Fusiliers & his birth is the "wrong" part of Ireland BUT any of that could be lies
or your Samuel could have lied about his regiment on his marriage documentation.
I need to be sure so I can eliminate this one. Hope you don't tell me he was married in Feb or Mar 1916.
The more I think about it the more I'm becoming convinced that you've already found him in the ASH.
But I'll keep looking to see If I can find his Military Attestation Papers.
Richard.

[Richard]

DEL:
It's not looking very promising and I can explain why you may have been struggling to find Samuel's records.
There is a good chance that they DON'T exist.
Up until now all my researches have been on WW2 or Canadian soldiers in WW1,(they have looked after
their records better than we've looked after ours), but I have just learned,(in the wee sma oors), that:
"All UK WW1 Army Records were sent to London for filing, storage & safe keeping BUT most were destroyed
by heavy German bombing during WW2. The remainder of these records are now known as the Burnt Collection
because they are very badly fire & water damaged". The Burnt Collection has been Microfiled for us.
I have still got one or two records to check but it's not looking good. Will get back to you as soon as I'm done.
Richard.

[Del 80]

Richard, Samuel Allan married on the 15th December 1916 at St. Andrews church Ardrossan, I've just noticed that he is given as living at 9 Herald Street, so that could be him on the ASH site. Regards Del.

[Richard]

DEL:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I don't think your relatives records exist.
I have thoroughly checked the following record collections for a Samuel Allan Clarke & found nothing:
(a): UK Army WW1 Service Records 1914-1920.
(b): UK Army WW1 Pension Records 1914-1920.
(c): UK Military Medal & Award Rolls 1793-1949.
(d): UK Citations of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920.
(e): UK Navy Medal & Award Rolls 1793-1972.
(f): GB Royal Aero Club Aviators Certificates 1910-1950.
It looks as though Samuels records must have been amongst those destroyed during WW2 ?
The only other options for you, that I can think of, to try & get more info would be to:
(a): Try Scotlandspeople ?
(b): Try & look into that "Railway/Docks/Harbour Goods Checker"idea ?
(c): Try looking up and/or checking out the regiments museum/history department or web site ?
These things will not get you his records but you will learn more about his regiment and that will give you
clues as to where he might have fought & been wounded etc. Also, unless you were a traitor or deserter,
every British soldier received at least one medal. More often than not, I think most who survived the war
got 2 or 3. Samuels medal info must have been with the rest of his records but there might be some other
kind of record of this, elsewhere and if so maybe someone at the regiments museum will be able to point
you in the right direction.
I came across several "Samuel Clarke's",(without the middle name), but through the info you supplied, it was
easy to eliminate them. Would have been a lot easier if I had his service number but unless you already
have it, the only place you are going to get that from is his records.
Sorry I couldn't be more of a help but If you need to ask anything, don't hesitate.
Richard.
PS: I am convinced that was him you found, as wounded, in the ASH.
Also, there might just be a possibility that he was stationed near home. Think about it. There is a world war
going on and ALL of that Ayrshire coastline is a very strategically important area, with all it's little ports &
harbours, not to mention an explosives factory ? The place must have been crawling with troops ?
Just an idea...not fact ?