Poll - Does Scotland really want to go it alone?

[Retsum]

Time we forgot the emotion and looked to the facts. I hope that we will have a full, frank and free debate on this before we make a decision, which, if it goes wrong, will go VERY wrong. Imagine having to crawl back to Westminster, cap in hand.

Be very careful what you wish for; you might get it. This is a VERY difficult one. Don't be persuaded by spurious, emotional arguments.

What is wrong with emotion John? Are not all our major actions and decisions driven by emotion and gut instinct? Is emotion not the driver of life? It's usually after the event that we build a logical argument to support what we have done.

Consider one of the most important, personal decisions we make in life - to get married. (I am assuming you are married - so forgive me if I got that wrong). Did you sit down and logically analyze the pros and cons of marrying your wife? If I had done that, I would probably not have got married. I was a research student. I had just finished the first year of a three year research program and we were both as poor as church mice. Yet within a year of meeting we got married and within five years of marriage we had three children. You could say all that was irresponsible and irrational. Yet we made it and now our kids are married and we have a bunch of grandchildren to revel in.

Multiply that up to a national level. It is the shared emotional, gut response that will give us the confidence to carry this through to independence. Of course there will be problems but they will be our problems and we will find our solutions.

[Richard]

Could not have put it better myself Retsum.
You cannot have politics without emotion...that's known as a mutual appreciation society.

My situation was similar Retsum.
Met my wife in the summer of 85.
By February 86 we were married.
By July 86 our first was born.
We have just celebrated our 26th anniversary and we have 3 brilliant grandsons.
VERY few people would be married if we all sat down and worked out the pros & cons of marriage
and how it would all pan-out.

Sometimes we have to take a chance in life and follow our instinct, fortune favours the brave etc.
We only have one life and there are no blue prints. I hope to do my bit in making Scotland a far
better place for everyone, especially my grandchildren and beyond.
And there is no better starting point than getting rid of that medieval cesspit of corruption and
parasites, also known as Westminster.
Scottish Independence WILL come, It is only a question of when and the only true answer to that is;
When the people of Scotland decide.

[frank quinn]

Really, are we bothered about this?? I have lived in England permanently
since 1964.I have 2 children & 5 grandchildren and we are happy. I worked
until 2007. Born Scots will die Scots Wherever I live, so what about Independance?
Like many Scots we are happy where we live and I for one would not move from
my home.Forget this Scotland Independance, what will it benefit us ?
The only thing wrong with England is that they have not been educated by us.
totally as they still vote for prats like D. Cameron and gang.
The only thing Britain needs is to Ban Tories & NICK CLEGG.
Nuff Said.---------------------------

[Richard]

Most people want to know EXACTLY what is on offer with this up & coming referendum.
Although a "consultation period" has been set it motion, by the SNP, to determine what will be on the
actual ballot form. It look's as though it will come down to a straightforward choice between
Independence or Continued Devolution with SOME increased powers.
IF a third option was to appear on the ballot paper, It would be the status quo. This is highly unlikely.
What we have on offer at this moment in time is:
(A):Independence if you vote SNP. They have stated that they will launch a "White Paper" in the Autumn
of 2013 and the referendum will be held in the Autumn of 2014. Only the SNP has the power to set the
date for the referendum but they have always stated it would be in the Autumn of 2014.
That will give us a full year to digest whatever is on offer in the "White Paper" from the SNP.

(B):Devolution with some increased powers if you vote for any of the LibLabCons. Although these three
are united against Scotland having her own Independence, they will not come out and state clearly
what they are offering in the way of "Increased Powers". They want us to vote against Independence,
first, then they will sit down and see what "extra powers" they will give us. The onus is on these 3 to
declare the detail, before the vote, of what they are offering us. They seem reluctant to do this.

That is the situation so far and unless it changes, basically, the LibLabCons want us to buy a house or
a car without seeing it.
That's what we have on offer at the moment. Hope this helps to make things a bit clearer for those
that were not very sure of what was on offer and who stood for what etc.
I don't expect much detail to come from anyone until that white paper comes out but in the
meantime we are going to be inundated with constant unionist scare stories such as our airports
possibly being bombed or we could be invaded by a super power or whatever other drivel some
padded cell case comes up with.

EXACTLY FQ: You live in England, not up here. You are happy and long may it continue.
England votes Tory, Scotland gets Tory, (no matter who we vote for).
The only way to guarantee that we get the government we vote for is
through Independence."Are we bothered about this" ? Did you see the
results of the last elections in Scotland ? Nuff Said

[morag]

In case anyone misconstrues...this is not anti-English, it's pro-Scottish. I love England and the English people, I was born there and spent my first 2 years there. Most of my friends and relatives live there. But our ideals, outlook and politics are so different. It's Westminster that is the problem.

[Richard]

I would like to second that Morag.
Although we shouldn't have to explain ourselves, I understand the need to.
My grandsons were ALL born in England and their mothers, (my daughters in law), are english.
My youngest sister was born in England, along with 2 of my cousines. And my nephew.
A lot of my family still live down there, all over the place, from Portsmouth in the south to
Corby in the Midlands.
Only the Ignorant would try to make us out to be racists.
Scottish Independence is all about getting rid of Westminster and making our own decisions.

[morag]

Another interesting article.
http://tommyballgovan.blogspot.com/2012 ... l?spref=fb

[sweet caroline]

I have lived in England ,and have 2 sons born in England.1Son and my daughter live in England .I have brother in laws and their families in England.I think if Maggie Thatcher had not brought in a law in Scotland ,instead of the whole of UK. we would not be so willing to discuss Separation.I think also the years when we voted Labour and ended up with a Tory goverment never helped.The whole of Scotland's population fits into London ,or did.So Scotlands Government comes from more English voters ,even Wales or Northern Ireland together with Scotland i believe would be out voted by England. The devolution was set up so an SNP government could not have overall majority.Ian Duncan Smith started his new Employment "Theory "in Scotland .We were first to undergo the Fit to Work for those on Incapacity.I believe run my a private company,payed a bonus for everone they pass Fit for Work,or Will be Fit for Work.Our nearest job center is full of Job Vacancies in England.So still being used as guinea pigs by the Tories.
I discussed this years ago with 1 of my English sister in Laws who at the time was staying in Scotland .I was told all the English would leave ,English firms would leave,not to expect to keep the Nuclear subs or anything Nuclear .We wouldn't be allowed an Army.
I'm not for Separation ,i would like more Devolution.

sweet caroline

[Richard]

Brilliant article Morag but I think I've read parts of that somewhere before ?
There is obviously far too many points to go over here but would make for great discussion on another
thread. To attempt to discus any of them here would deflect from the topic of our poll.
I think it would be a great reference tool to force your case, after Independence, to get things changed.
The most important thing though is Independence first.
The one thing I can't and will never do is criticise the majority of soldiers who are doing their jobs and I
can only agree with the author that an Afghan civilians life is NOT worth any less than a soldiers.
What always gets lost in situations like this is WHO sent our soldiers out there in the first place and then
it's the soldiers who are left to take the crap, from all directions.
The Labour, Westminster government, sent the soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan without the backing of
most of the population. It is a Tory/Liberal, Westminster government, that is keeping them there.
I think it was you, Morag, that pointed out earlier on this thread that Scottish soldiers would probably not
have been sent to these places, under a Independent Scottish government. I would like to think so too.
A LOT of good people have died, soldiers & civilians, and for what ?
Roll on Independence.
Sweet Caroline: It's hard to argue against most of what you say, apart from the Devo part
The Poll Tax and what happened to the Miners, I think, was a big turning point.
They are welcome to their nuclear toys but I think England's people will be up in arms at the thought of
having these weapons on their own soil. Good luck with that one, Westminster

[morag]

What do you all make of the NHS proposals?

[Sarah]

What a great topic this has been just, loving it...

[morag]

Sarah, get yer a'm fur in therr! lol!