Poll - Does Scotland really want to go it alone?

[Richard]

Just a few more factual points to ponder for the undecided:

(A): Yesterday's Westminster Budget; More scraps, yet again for Scotland, thrown from the "masters table".
(B): Westminster will send our 16 & 17 year old's to fight for their country and possibly die. They will even
allow them to have children and/or get married but Westminster does not believe in giving them the
vote to have a say in the future of their country.
(C): Westminster can order our soldiers into wars such as Iraq, without the countries backing. Brussels
does not have the power to do that and the Scottish people would never allow a Scottish government
to do that.
(D): Brussels does not have the power to meddle with the state pension but Westminster does.
(E): Brussels does not take all our taxes and then decide how much it will give us back but Westminster does.
(F): Brussels does not set VAT rates. Westminster does.
(G):Brussels cannot order Scotland to keep nuclear weapons but Westminster can and does.
(H):Westminster tells us what countries we will go to war with. We Scots are capable of picking our own
fights, thank you very much.
(I): Scotland has to ask Westminster's permission to set up & broadcast our own TV programmes, such as
Gaelic language programmes. Why should Westminster MP' get to decide what Scotland's people watch
or listen to on TV & Radio ?
(J): Brussels does not have the power to create endless red tape which prevents sick or disabled people
from getting benefits but that is exactly what Westminster can and is doing.
(K): Westminster has a disgraceful record of letting terrorist's, such as Abu Hamza, into the country.
These terrorist's then scrounge off our benefits system, with their many wives, as they preach their
messages of death & hatred. Giving them shelter when they start screaming that they will be
"tortured" if deported. Meanwhile, hundreds of genuine asylum seekers who need shelter and our help
are turned away every year. Not only that but recently, one elderly man who was born & bred in
Scotland had to get a tabloid newspaper to help him get his own passport from the passport office,
just so he could go to the USA to see family. Cowards before citizens ?????
(L): The EU does not have the power to dictate when any of it's member countries can hold a referendum,
but that is exactly what Westminster is trying to do to Scotland.
(M): Independence for Scotland would also bring about the end to the absurd system of Scottish MP' getting
to vote on English issues, when the English have no say on Scottish issues.

Remind me.....why should we opt for Westminster over Independence ?

[SolcotsSue]

I'm all for Independence.

I think our voters should read up on everything about Scotland politically, the history of the Treaty of Union, Westminster & Scotland, we as a nation etc before making an informed decision.

There is so much information on the internet to read up as well as websites with discussions and/or comments for or against.

Those talking about emotion, of course it plays a part just like anything else. But that is not to say one's decision for Independence is based on a persons emotion.

John, are you saying don't let your heart rule your head, sort of thing?

Here's some information from the Scottish government, it's called a National Conversation. It's a long read, but quite straightforward.

Read Here

Remember too, that this is not a vote like an election and we're not voting for a political party despite that it's SNP behind the driving seat of the referendum. If Independence happens, then we have an election of who will be sitting in Holyrood and who our minister will be.

[Richard]

SolcotsSue:
Ditto all of the above, excellently put.
May I just add, regarding your last 2 sentences, YES; it's NOT about voting for ANY party.
It's about voting to get away from Westminster rule or staying as we are.
As the SNP are the ONLY party capable, at present, of delivering that, it is them who we tend to vote for.
If, at the referendum, the SNP get, as expected, a majority YES vote then that gives them a mandate to
start the whole negotiating process with Westminster to sort out all the nuts & bolts of the situation and
to start organizing our infrastructure for Independence. Then, approx 2016, our first elections as a
Independent country would take place for all of us to decide who we want as our Scottish government
During this 2 year period of negotiations, the LibLabCons would also have to change into "proper Scottish
political parties" and cut their ties with their Westminster masters and start offering Scotland's people
real policies in exchange for votes etc.
I personally, am not a SNP supporter or member but I do recognise the need to put Independence FiRST
and will be voting YES. I don't like voting for the SNP and can't wait to have a REAL choice in who I can
vote for but meanwhile it has to be Independence first, for the benefit of Scotland & her people.

[howiesboy]

Sad to see the unionist loaded phraseology being used in the question (the negative-sounding "separate" rather than the positive "independent") but, to answer the question, I cannot see how any Scot can reject independence unless through fear. For example, if you are a Labour voter, you can still vote Scottish Labour after indepence and you may even get a sniff of a return to something recognisable as socialist.

I have been for independence since the 70s when we were cheated out of it. If you think I exaggerate, see this Independent article from 2005 - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 18697.html . Even in 2012, how many Scots have heard of the McCrone Report? Google it and have a read. It is only 7 pages long. We coulda been contenders!! And we still can if people get off their knees.

[thomasmann]

The possibility of Shetland and the Orkneys voting to stay with Britain is intriguing. Will any other areas get the chance not to separate? I'm thinking particularly of Dumfries and Galloway and East Renfrewshire, for instance.
Thomas Mann

[SolcotsSue]

Also,

In 1999 Tony Blair secretly made 6,000 MILES of SCOTLAND'S SEA - ENGLISH by moving Scotland's marine boundaries from Berwick-up-on-Tweed to Carnoustie

Read Here

It's just not right and I don't trust any Westminster government, nor political parties and I can't see it getting better. I hate the word 'separatist' that is used we already were and are a Country and we are only in a 'Political Union' with Westminster.

It's a myth that England subsidises Scotland too, without the oil Westminster wouldn't be able to provide for London and the South east, hence why they are panicking & scaremongering if Scotland becomes dependent. But this Independence is not about the oil, it's about making our own decision, having control over our own nation without having 'reserved' matters that Westminster keep the control.

[Richard]

Thomas:
The Orkney/Shetland issue is another scare story that has been, mostly, perpetuated by liberals.
They have been doing it for years. What people need to remember is that these 2 places almost
wiped-out the liberals at the last elections AND, maybe more importantly, how can we trust the
word of a party that is practically in bed with labour, one minute, and then in bed with the tories
as soon as they get a whiff of power.
These type of scare stories have been running for as long as the "union" itself.
All 3, LibLabCons, are guilty of it and they do it because their Westminster masters tell them to
do it. They should ALL be made to apologise to Scotland & her people for grossly & deliberately
misleading us over the past few centuries.
Independence WILL come, it is only a matter of when, and those who have jobs will go to work the
very next day (unless hungover from the celebrations ), our children will continue to go to school
as usual, our English neighbours will still be alive and the world will continue to rotate.
There will be no big, bad, bogeyman waiting to get us.

[exile]

I don't know how this vote will go, but given the huge ramifications of changing over to independence, I would make it mandatory for every such voter to be able to explain precisely HOW and WHY, both economically and politically, it would be overwhelmingly to the benefit of Scots in the medium and long term.
It's just too important for emotion, and that means all voters who give reasons like "we're fed up being told what to do by the English" should maybe be sent home "tae think again".

[Richard]

Exile:
Your point of wanting to know why people voted is not only an invasion of privacy etc, it would be far
to expensive & time consuming to implement that.
As for your point on "blaming the english ?", I could not agree with you more.
I get sick and tired of hearing it. Scotland gets beat at football, it's England's fault.
Scotland has a few bad day's of weather, it's England's fault etc, etc, etc.
OK, those examples were a bit extreme BUT...it happens.
Scotland has only herself to blame for the position we find ourselves in. Afterall, we only have to vote
for it and then take control of our own ship.

Howiesboy:
I don't know if you have been reading this "debate" from the beginning but Hughie does
suggest that he plans to do this again, nearer the time, and maybe change one or two thing's.
I agree, the phraseology is a bit unfortunate but hopefully we can keep him right when the time comes,
to phrase the questions a bit more fairly. I don't think it was done deliberately...or was it, Hughie ?
Also, remember that the "Poll" is just a bit of fun AND that people all over the planet will be able to cast
a vote but will have no say in the real thing when the time comes. Good link.

[danensis]

As a Yorkshireman with Scottish ancestry, I think all we have to do is get rid of London, then the rest of the UK will be fine.

[morag]

As a Yorkshireman with Scottish ancestry, I think all we have to do is get rid of London, then the rest of the UK will be fine.

If Scotland gets independence, England gets independence and it's own parliament (if NI and Wales, and Wales looks exceedingly ready, are of like minds), and there will be no more Westminster Gov.

[howiesboy]

In response to "Exile",

Yes, let's take the emotion right out of the equation. But could those who keep trying to scare us into retaining the status quo also give it a rest? So far, all the arguments from all the unionist parties has been negative scare stories based on fear of the unknown.

Let's concentrate on the tangible economic realities. Have you read the McCrone Report? Only 7 pages, here it is: http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf .

We all want the best for Scotland, even if we disagree.