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    Re: Sad News

    Postby Mac » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:36 am

    I have no doubt that work in the factory resulted in quite a number of cases of injury, ill health and death - some in the short term and many more in the longer term as a result of chronic illnesses (for example, cancer). My mother died from mesothelioma - a cancer known only to be associated with blue asbestos. Since her only contact with this material was during her work as a 'monkey dunger' (pipe lagger) at the factory (30 years before her death) then the cause is seemingly evident.

    However, it was not really until the 1970's that health and safety at work became a cause celebre. In my opinion not a day too soon either! There are, of course, still injuries, ill health and deaths at work, caused mainly by management failures but improvements have, and still are, being made. It is sometimes an uphill struggle, as I know - I spent nearly 30 years 'fighting the cause' of health and safety at work.

    Having said that, is it not a fact that in the hey days of the 'factory' there was a greater community spirit and even a better standard of living within the threetowns.

    I'm willing to be shot down over my last remark there but that's as I seem to remember it (albeit as a young lad).
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby John Donnelly » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:37 am

    in the hey days of the 'factory' there was a greater community spirit and even a better standard of living within the threetowns.


    Mac,
    I'll go alongwith you if you change 'standard of living' to 'quality of life.'
    There might be more wealth in the 3 towns , (though I still seriously doubt that - more money, perhaps, but then that's worth less), but I remember we were a happy bunch. Maybe we didn't have as much, but we were more content with what we did have. Or am I being a sentimental alsheimers patient?

    JD
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby ellenyoung31 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:27 pm

    Hello. I am sorry for the 90 people that are losing their jobs.
    I agree with what you say we helped our neighbor's and workmates
    more than they do to day.
    Ellen,
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby Mac » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:17 pm

    Mac,
    I'll go alongwith you if you change 'standard of living' to 'quality of life.' <snipped>
    JD


    Granted JD I think you are right and it's what I meant " quality of life". Standard of living was the wrong phrase. Thanks.
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby georgeflemingard » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:22 am

    I served my apprenticeship with ICI back in the 50s, The union encouraged the apprentices to join {forced?} I remember there was a union meeting of the engineering union, the company insisted it had to be held outside the Factory Gates. when we all Gathered there we noticed, Scottish TV, most of the crowd spent more time looking and waving at the Cameras than listening to what the union officials were saying, TV was still a novelty then.
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby frank quinn » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:14 pm

    The end of an era---the good,the bad and the ugly.
    I will say no more about Ardeer factory, it brought
    a lot of changes & a lot of heart ache.
    My father died, like a lot from cancer, how many
    others did thru, not having proper safety conditions.
    Yeah -yeah, it did a lot for the area, but at what cost. !!
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby morag » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:50 pm

    Amen, Frank. Your dad, his brothers, my dad, many more suffered and ultimately died as a result of their contact with 'the factory'. Kind of ironic the Nobel committee gives thousands away in prizes each year,,maybe it should consider compensation for damage done instead.
    "You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
    C.S.Lewis
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby Meg » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:32 pm

    I think I also remember someone saying that at ICI's peak, they encouraged employees to get elected to local councils and any further development - both in sewer works and local new company development was squashed - ICI felt that they could employ everyone who wanted a job and that without competition, they were able to ensure their workforce included whole families - no one would strike then. The Garnock Valley sewer was desperately needed to allow expansion and didn't actually get passed by the council until the mid seventies - by which time, ICI was on the wane. Great for some, not so good for others.

    I also remember that a lot of my dad's contemporaries died early when they retired from Shell - my dad lived until he was 84, but a lot of his workmates died within a few months of retiring. Often wondered if it was something to do with the fumes.

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    Re: Sad News

    Postby Rowanside » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:46 pm

    Yes Meg,i remember your Dad well,from the fun in Clyde Terrace,(Trying to show me how to play golf).As i said earlier,bugger the nostalgia and the cameredie, many people died before their time because of lack of information about the conditions which were known but not implimented.
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby scottyd » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:30 pm

    I appreciate what you all say about illnesses from "the factory" but it was not different from anywhere else. God knows what long term effects working at Hunterston might bring or from British Steel at Glengarnock etc etc.
    Working conditions have improved over the years along with other things - most beneficial of all being the improvements in the west of scotland diet. My Dad died at 51 but it was more to do with a high fat diet, too much alcohol and being a heavy smoker than to do with working conditions I suspect.
    We have to see things in the context of the times they happened and ICI was a major employer and a generator of prosperity in the 40s / 50s / 60s - what would life have been like without it ?
    As for the unions - well I am sorry to say it but you get what you deserve - anyone who has ever been active in a trade union will tell you that the apathy amongst the workforce was always a bigger problem than the threats from the employer.
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby Rowanside » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:39 pm

    Off topic a bit.Hi Scottyd where have you been hiding ?,you were judged "Best caption comment" in Sept,but forgot to post yours ?, mon give us a funny.
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    Re: Sad News

    Postby scottyd » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:49 pm

    Sorry Rownaside - got a bit carried away there !
    As for the caption competition I never knew that was the "prize" - can I still add one ?
    (Been off-line for a while but back fit and healthy now !)
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